Life at Brodies: Being a trainee

00:00:05 David Lee, Host

Hello and welcome to Podcasts by Brodies. My name is David Lee and in this new series Life at Brodies, we're getting to know Brodies colleagues as they share their personal experiences and perspectives about working at Scotland's largest legal firm.

Today, I'm delighted to welcome Regan Lambert and Robert Bough to talk about their experience as trainee solicitors at Brodies.

Hello to you both. Regan, I'll come to you first, just tell us a little bit about life before Brodies, if such thing ever existed. Where are you from? When did you first think ‘I want to be a lawyer’?

00:00:45 Regan Lambert, Trainee Solicitor

I'm from Livingston, born and bred, lived there my whole life. Just kind of studied at school and it was, I believe, Primary 7, so I was about 11 years old and I broke my ankle and turned to my Gran in A&E and said ‘I'm going to be a lawyer’ and ever since then I've stuck to my word, stuck to my guns. I think that's stemmed from just always being told by my friends and people in my class that I was good at arguing and I should be a lawyer or a politician or something. Something that would involve arguing. So, I thought fine, and I did that. I had a part time job from the age of 16, worked for a large shoe retailer in their call centre for seven years and did that all through studying, doing the undergraduate LLB at Edinburgh Napier and then the Diploma at Strathclyde. Stuck there, did part time when I was studying and full time over the summer just to get by and now, I'm here.

00:01:49 David Lee, Host

What was it about being in that hospital bed? Why, at that particular moment, did you say you wanted to be a lawyer?

00:01:57 Regan Lambert, Trainee Solicitor

I guess with the hospital wait times, I was just left with my thoughts for a few hours. No time to do anything but think so, as I said, all those people telling me that I should argue and I'm good at arguing and I should be a lawyer. I just thought, you know what? That's what I'm going to do. That's a good job. It sounds about right, that's me sold. Before that, actually, since I was a small child up until then I wanted to be a vet, but my granddad told me that that involved putting animals down and that was me, no chance, let's think of a different career path. So, law it was.

00:02:31 David Lee, Host

Thanks very much. What about you, Robert? You did a different degree before you did law. So, at what point did you actually think law.

00:02:44 Robert Bough, Trainee Solicitor

Yeah, that's right. I spent four years at the University of Birmingham doing modern languages. I did German with Spanish and had an excellent year abroad in Seville and Cologne. Then I worked in London for just under a year at a sports marketing company. While I was in London I spent some time thinking about what I wanted to do and started learning a bit more about climate change and energy related issues and thought about what I could do to contribute to make a positive difference in that sphere. I considered going into policy or education, but I read a couple of books about law and climate change and thought that law was quite an untapped tool for making a positive impact. So, I came back up to Edinburgh where I grew up and started as a project assistant at Brodies, so from late 2019 right through until graduating from my diploma in 2022 and during my graduate entry LLB in at University of Edinburgh in 2020.

00:04:12 David Lee, Host

What was it about Brodies, Robert? What attracted you to Brodies as a firm?

00:04:19 Robert Bough, Trainee Solicitor

This is a fair amount of time ago now, I'm not sure I remember exactly what I thought about the firm. I think I was mainly just looking for jobs in law at the time and the project assistant role that Brodies came up then worked, as I say, for a few years at the firm while studying, and I suppose it was spending time at the firm and feeling very welcome and enjoying my time here that made me apply for the traineeship ultimately. So, it was more getting into the firm, learning more about it than kind of having preconceptions or any ideas before starting.

00:05:01 David Lee, Host

Thank you. What about you, Regan? What brought you to Brodies? What was your first interaction with the firm and what was then the journey to getting the traineeship?

00:05:14 Regan Lambert, Trainee Solicitor

Through high school, when we get to fifth year, we were offered work placements and people would tend to go to like primary schools and things, but I was made aware of an opportunity with Brodies, a PRIME placement, for a week or two, I can't remember now, so long ago. I applied for that and was offered the PRIME placement in summer, way back when and that sold it for me, kept in touch with Wendy Murphy, who's in charge of graduate recruitment and she set me up with a mentor who was a trainee at the time in Brodies and kept in touch with my mentor all the way for university up until it had come to applying for summer placements. My mentor helped with that, and I secured a summer placement. It was a two-week placement back in 2021 and through the summer placement I was offered the traineeship, so that's how I got here.

00:06:11 David Lee, Host

Did you have any preconceptions, Regan, beforehand about Brodies and what it might be like as a firm? How did that match up when you came to the firm?

00:06:24 Regan Lambert, Trainee Solicitor

With the PRIME placement, I was a naive 16 year old, so I really had no idea. It wasn't until after the PRIME placement when I started telling friends and family that they made me aware that that was quite a big deal and that I should try my best to stay in touch and that it was a great thing to do. I think after then, I had my sights set on Brodies, I didn't want to go anywhere else, didn't apply for anywhere else. I just knew that this is what I wanted to do, and this is where I wanted to be. I really seen myself fitting in with the firm’s culture and having those connections and knowing some of the people there already that made me feel like I belonged here.

00:07:02 David Lee, Host

Let's talk a little bit about how you get into the firm and Robert, you probably had a bit of a benefit in the sense that you were working in there already, but what about the actual application interview process to get on the ladder to becoming a lawyer? How did you find that application and an interview process? Was it tough?

00:07:22 Robert Bough, Trainee Solicitor

I think it is tough. I think the application process for law firms is they make it smooth as possible, but the task of finding a traineeship it is certainly difficult. The application process as I remember it was sending a written application that was the first stage, I was then invited to an online assessment centre. I was due to be on holiday in London on the day of the assessment centre. So, I decided to do it from our London office, which we just opened so I was incredibly nervous about it. I felt an extra pressure because I'd worked at Brodies for a few years, so I thought it would be especially, almost, embarrassing if I had worked there for that long and then didn't end up getting it. So, I remember the day before I was walking around London with my girlfriend, and I think it was terrible chat for that for that day because I couldn't think of anything else but the assessment day. It started with an interview and I had my interviews with David Bales and Nicole Ferry and they both made me feel very relaxed and at ease and it was it was as much a chat as anything else. That went OK, and then we had a presentation in the afternoon, Regan and I have discussed the fact that that was probably the most stressful part of the assessment centre because you were tested on your knowledge of Brodies a little bit and the clients that they work with and the departments within the firm. Again, Dave and Nicole made that as comfortable as it could have been and then we had our written assessment to finish the day. So, it's a nerve-wracking process, but the firm and certainly the people that were interviewing me made it as good as it could be.

00:09:24 David Lee, Host

How soon did you find out, Robert, after that day? What did you feel when you got the call saying you'd made it?

00:09:31 Robert Bough, Trainee Solicitor

I think my assessment centre was on Thursday and I found out the following Monday or Tuesday, it was a quick turnaround. I was delighted really and had a big sense of relief that I hadn't embarrassed myself and that the three years as a project assistant hadn’t been a disaster. I remember feeling pleased and that I was looking forward to doing the diploma and getting started with the traineeship.

00:10:03 David Lee, Host

What about you, Regan? How did you find that process? Robert said that the presentation aspect of it was the most challenging. How did how did you find it? How quickly did you discover that you'd been selected as well?

00:10:19 Regan Lambert, Trainee Solicitor

So, we were interviewed during the summer placement, so we had the same three assessments, the written assessment, the presentation and then a more formal interview, we still had that, but it was spread out over a couple of days. So, that helped with the nerve side.

Again, I agree with Robert, the presentation was the worst part for me. I felt like that was a total fail, but I also had in the back of my mind that there wasn't as much pressure on me to get it right for the presentation and for the interviews because I was there for the two-week summer placement. I felt like I had more time to show my ability and shine, and it wasn't all down to that one day, which was beneficial. The placement finished on Friday and by the Monday or Tuesday I believe I got a phone call from Wendy letting me know I was successful. So that was one of the best days, I remember just calling my grandparents and we all cried over the phone to each other. It was just such a long time coming and it was just such relief. It was such a hard time as well, it was during Covid so it was some good news in such a difficult time.

00:11:25 David Lee, Host

How did you feel, Regan, about going into Brodies? Was it daunting at all going into, what was already by then, Scotland's largest legal firm? Did you feel welcome when you came into the firm?

00:11:40 Regan Lambert, Trainee Solicitor

Having a taster of Brodies beforehand helped, but I think it's a case of imposter syndrome. I feel like I struggled with that quite a bit and thinking that I'd just lucked out like I'm going to come in here and they're going to think that I’m not capable of this and that I shouldn’t be there. That was what made me most nervous but I couldn't fault the firm. They are so friendly, supportive and reassuring. I made sure I brought that up and mentioned it to the people responsible for me and they were so quick to reassure me and to make sure that I didn't feel like that and just to let me know that I deserve to be here and I was capable and I was clever in that I was going to be fine.

00:12:26 David Lee, Host

How did you feel, Robert, in terms of the support that you got? You've obviously been in the firm before, but then coming in as a trainee, did you feel that you were well supported as you started on that journey? When did you start? Did you coincide with Covid as well or you would be afterwards?

00:12:43 Robert Bough, Trainee Solicitor

I started the traineeship last September, I actually graduated from my diploma in May last year, so it's been a long year. I started in Regan's year, and I remember feeling supported from the start. Every trainee is given a buddy mentor and a supervising solicitor, you organise regular meetings with them so they are always on hand to answer any questions you've got, silly or otherwise, and I remember them being a useful support at various times.

There is then the quarterly review process. So, I think that is law society mandated, but nonetheless it's quite good just to check in with Wendy, the head of graduate recruitment and your supervising solicitor just to see how you're getting on and maybe ask if you've got any specific objectives for the coming period and really just to monitor progress and make sure you're happy with everything. There is then, maybe less official but it's no less important, the trainee support. You start with a cohort, I think we had 22 of us in our year across the various offices, and you do feel part of quite a close team, everyone's feeling similar things, bit of imposter syndrome, bit of excitement but everyone's always looking out for each other and having lunch together, sharing experiences and worries and comments, and I think that's as valuable as anything else.

00:14:31 David Lee, Host

Let's talk a little bit about what seats you've been in during your traineeship so far? Regan, what have what have you done so far in the firm and how many different seats are you in as a trainee?

00:14:45 Regan Lambert, Trainee Solicitor

So, as a trainee, you have three seats for eight months. I was offered a project assistant position a couple of months before starting so I started in May in the personal and family team and I just continued there for my first seat. I was in private client, the more personal side of things, doing wills and executries and then we just changed to our second seat at the start of April. Now I'm in the corporate team based in Edinburgh and I'll be here until the start of December and then it’ll be our final seat.

00:15:23 David Lee, Host

Do you know what you're doing for your final one yet?

00:15:25 Regan Lambert, Trainee Solicitor

No. So, a couple of weeks before we're due to move, we'll be given a list of options and each trainee will rank which seat they'd like in order of top three. So, you pick three that you'd like to do, and Wendy and whoever else will do their best to accommodate you and give you one of your top choices.

00:15:44 David Lee, Host

What have you been doing so far, Robert? What seats have you been in?

00:15:47 Robert Bough, Trainee Solicitor

With my first seat, I was in the corporate practice area in the energy team and the seat that I'm currently in is within our real estate practice area in the renewables team. So those are the two that I've done so far.

00:16:03 David Lee, Host

What have you enjoyed so far most about the traineeship would you say Robert?

00:16:09 Robert Bough, Trainee Solicitor

I obviously came into the traineeship hoping to discover how I could make a bit of an impact in the energy transition, and I've really enjoyed the opportunities I've had in my current seat and my last seat to immerse myself in the energy sector and understand a bit more about what clients are doing, what some of their challenges are, what opportunities there are in the sector.

I've enjoyed the work that's enabled me to do that. In my last seat I carried out almost a bit of a research policy assistant function in keeping the team up to date with news and policy updates and legislative updates as they came out. So, that was good for giving me a sense of the overall sector. Then in my current seat I have been doing a lot with the property elements of renewables transactions and that's given me a good insight into what clients are up to in Scotland in particular.

00:17:18 David Lee, Host

The firm's been quite open to you in the sense that your interest in environment and sustainability that they've been quite open to you getting involved in quite specific things that allow you to follow that interest as well as you know doing the day to day, necessary aspects of the job.

00:17:37 Robert Bough, Trainee Solicitor

Definitely. I suppose, a bit like Regan said, just before each seat you can submit your three choices. My choices have generally revolved around matters that are energy related or energy adjacent. So, Wendy and whoever else allocates the seats to the trainees have been accommodating to that and then in the teams and themselves, my colleagues have been great to get me on board and get me involved with things. People have been very supportive of that.

00:18:15 David Lee, Host

What about yourself, Regan? What's particularly interested you so far? In your time as a trainee, what's got you excited about the job?

00:18:28 Regan Lambert, Trainee Solicitor

My first seat in the personal side of things, I found it to be quite rewarding as I was helping people. Whether that's planning for their future or whether it was dealing with loved ones that have passed away, helping deal with their estate. So, that was rewarding. Just being able to do that for someone and take one of those burdens off their plate. In corporate, the highlight is working with such interesting clients, we work for a lot of well known household names, that is quite exciting. I know a lot of people will disagree, but a couple of deals that have us up until midnight night working towards completion, that's always really exciting and rewarding as well as long as it’s not too often.

00:19:14 David Lee, Host

Brodies, I think, is probably seen by a lot of people as quite a tough place to work. It's not got to where it is without setting very high standards. Is it all work and no play? How do you balance your personal life with those occasional late nights?

00:19:37 Regan Lambert, Trainee Solicitor

I totally understand. I guess the legal profession in general has this reputation, let alone the leading in the country, but Brodies has such an emphasis on work life balance. There's flexibility to go home at 6pm and have your dinner. I've got a little boy who's three, so I can go home and put him to bed and then log back on if I've got work outstanding. There's no pressure to be chained to your desk all day and you do notice as well when you're working late, the office is more or less empty by 6pm. If people don’t need to work late, they won’t. They will log back on from home if they'd rather be in the comfort of their own home. The flexibility definitely helps.

As I said, there is no expectation to stay late if it's not needed. We can log off at 5pm and no one is going to question it. So, it's not like that. There's lots and lots of play I can assure you.

00:20:42 David Lee, Host

What about from your perspective, Robert, have you found that there's a is a positive social side to the firm as well?

00:20:50 Robert Bough, Trainee Solicitor

Yeah, I'd echo what Regan said. I think there's a good work life balance. There’s quite a lot of networks and groups of colleagues that that get together during work hours or after work. For example there's a book club which meets after work. Some of the trainees are getting together after work this evening for drinks, there are colleague networks that meet at lunchtime. So, there's certainly lots of socialising that goes on alongside the work.

00:21:34 David Lee, Host

Away from the positive stuff, what's been the tough stuff? What's been the hardest thing to cope with as a trainee and that kind of transition into working for a very large legal firm? Robert, what about you?

00:21:51 Robert Bough, Trainee Solicitor

Overcoming imposter syndrome is something that is often discussed so I don't think I'll go down that route because I think lots of people have covered that but I do think that's a reality, you have got to find confidence in your own ability and that sometimes feels tough. If the work is a bit stressful or if you've got a lot on that's something that's a consideration at the beginning of your traineeship.

For me, the challenging parts were in my first seat kind of understanding the complexity of the energy sector and then also understanding how clients fit within that and what some of the expectations on trainees are to contribute to the team. That took some time getting used to in the first seat so that was probably one of the challenges.

00:22:56 David Lee, Host

What about you, Regan? What have you found toughest so far?

00:23:00 Regan Lambert, Trainee Solicitor

I think the toughest part for me has been going from first seat where I was for 11 months and feeling like nearing the end I was finally getting to grips with things and I had good knowledge and a lot of responsibility and I felt like I knew my stuff to then changing seats and going into something completely different where I know nothing and just kind of starting again. It was a difficult transition, but the team have been so supportive and know that you know nothing and it's also good to look back and see how far you've come and to know that this time in eight months I will know my stuff here too. So, it's been difficult but to be expected.

00:23:37 David Lee, Host

What you were saying before, you've got a little boy who's three and you say that the firm has been very understanding about that balance, how have you managed that personally? It's always a challenge managing small children and jobs, how have you coped with that?

00:23:54 Regan Lambert, Trainee Solicitor

Yeah, it was something that I was quite worried about coming in and obviously knowing it's quite a demanding job and perhaps maybe they won’t be accommodating for me, but it couldn't be more wrong. There's a parents' network where parents get together again at lunch times and discuss the difficulties of having a child whilst working full time. There is also so many policies in place to support families and to support young people as well, and I guess a lot of colleagues have children, so it's good to just be able to talk to people and to be open about it.

There's a flexibility as well to work from home if there's maybe an early nursery pick up or to go home and give him his dinner and bath and bed and then log back on. No one blinks an eye. People encourage it, if anything, for you to go home and spend time with your family and the work can wait most of the time. Like you can come back in a couple of hours. It's good that we have a network as well of people who are all in the same boat and we can really give advice to.

00:24:53 David Lee, Host

Finally, both of you are at the early stages of your legal career, what's the ambition? You've both touched on elements of the job that really you enjoy and that really inspire you. Robert, you first, what's the long term ambition looking ahead for the next couple of years and then beyond that as well?

00:25:18 Robert Bough, Trainee Solicitor

I think during your traineeship you're trying to get a varied experience, you're trying to pick up and develop a whole variety of skills across different teams and practise areas. So, I think continuing to work on that as we move into our second year of our traineeship moving towards qualification in August next year is something that Regan and I and the rest of the trainees will be working towards and trying to understand and figure out where exactly we want to be, what we'd like to be doing in the firm and for me, sort of listening to myself back, feel like I'm really banging the drum for the energy sector and sound like a bit of a broken record, but it is just sort of trying to understand where it is that I feel I can make the most impact and have a sort of positive effect and accelerate the energy transition and the UK's journey to net zero. So I'll be thinking of that in the next year or so and kind of making my applications and decisions based on that.

00:26:32 David Lee, Host

Thank you. What about you, Regan? You know, looking in that short term and that long term, where would you like to be? What's the ambition?

00:26:40 Regan Lambert, Trainee Solicitor

I wish there was an easy answer. I guess the main thing right now is just to continue progressing and learning as much as possible. There's still so much to see and to do and to learn, so just continuing to work towards qualifying and maybe finding my place in the firm and I'm seeing what kind of gets me going, what inspires me and taking it from there.

00:27:06 David Lee, Host

Great stuff, but what you've said earlier, when you're in a private client working with people and helping individuals very often at challenging times in their lives, that's certainly something in the early stages that's really inspired you.

00:27:20 Regan Lambert, Trainee Solicitor

Yes.

00:27:22 David Lee, Host

Thank you very much to Regan Lambert and to Robert Bough for talking about their experiences as trainee solicitors at Brodies today, and wherever you are in your career find out more about making that next step in your journey at Brodies by visiting our Brodies careers section.

You've been listening today to an episode of Podcasts by Brodies, where some of the country's leading lawyers and special guests share their Enlightened Thinking about issues and developments in the legal sector and beyond. If you'd like to hear more, you can subscribe to Podcasts by Brodies on all your favourite podcast platforms.